Note: This discussion is about an older version of the COMSOL Multiphysics® software. The information provided may be out of date.
Discussion Closed This discussion was created more than 6 months ago and has been closed. To start a new discussion with a link back to this one, click here.
fsi problem
Posted 3 ago 2010, 06:23 GMT-4 Version 4.1 19 Replies
Please login with a confirmed email address before reporting spam
hi
My model is a 3Dcylinder with a thickness(the walls are the solid domain and inside the cylinder is fluid domain where the fluid flows). The inlet boundary is a sin function(0.219+0.132sin(18.2t)),I wrote this in scalar experession and then used it in the inlet>laminar velocity boundary.The outlet is pressure outlet(4140pa).I chose the MEMS module>Fluid-structure interaction>solid,stress-strain..>transient to consider fsi..but my model didnot converge..I solved it before with anouther inlet velocity function(U^2/*(sqrt(t^4)+0.07t^2+0.0016) with no problem.
Does anyone know where is my problem?it may be at defining the sin inlet function!?how can I solve it?
please help me...
God bless you
maral
My model is a 3Dcylinder with a thickness(the walls are the solid domain and inside the cylinder is fluid domain where the fluid flows). The inlet boundary is a sin function(0.219+0.132sin(18.2t)),I wrote this in scalar experession and then used it in the inlet>laminar velocity boundary.The outlet is pressure outlet(4140pa).I chose the MEMS module>Fluid-structure interaction>solid,stress-strain..>transient to consider fsi..but my model didnot converge..I solved it before with anouther inlet velocity function(U^2/*(sqrt(t^4)+0.07t^2+0.0016) with no problem.
Does anyone know where is my problem?it may be at defining the sin inlet function!?how can I solve it?
please help me...
God bless you
maral
19 Replies Last Post 21 giu 2011, 15:30 GMT-4
Please login with a confirmed email address before reporting spam
Posted:
1 decade ago
hi
My model is a 3Dcylinder with a thickness(the walls are the solid domain and inside the cylinder is fluid domain where the fluid flows). The inlet boundary is a sin function(0.219+0.132sin(18.2t)),I wrote this in scalar experession and then used it in the inlet>laminar velocity boundary.The outlet is pressure outlet(4140pa).I chose the MEMS module>Fluid-structure interaction>solid,stress-strain..>transient to consider fsi..but my model didnot converge..I solved it before with anouther inlet velocity function(U^2/*(sqrt(t^4)+0.07t^2+0.0016) with no problem.
Does anyone know where is my problem?it may be at defining the sin inlet function!?how can I solve it?
please help me...
God bless you
maral
Can you write the dimensions of your problem (to have an estimate of Re), and a clear second inlet you used?
U^2/*(sqrt(t^4)+0.07t^2+0.0016 is not correct, apparently. Also, how much is U?
Please login with a confirmed email address before reporting spam
Posted:
1 decade ago
Danial my model, that is an article work(they worked with ansys) and I want to validate this model with comsol and then go to my own model, is attached.The boundary conditions are
inlet: velocity(.219+.132sin(18.2t))
outlet:pressure outlet(4140pa)
when I couldnt get result with this,I switched to a simple cylinder because I guessed that the problem may be because of inverting mech in the stenosis region.
but even in cylinder it didnt solved.
I changed the velocity function to [(U^2/sqrt(t^4-.07t^2)+.0016 and U=.033m/s]and pressure outlet to zero and it converges.but these changes are just to find the problem!!(indeed I didnt)
you know I think It is because Im not good familiar with comsol.
I need your help to continue please...
inlet: velocity(.219+.132sin(18.2t))
outlet:pressure outlet(4140pa)
when I couldnt get result with this,I switched to a simple cylinder because I guessed that the problem may be because of inverting mech in the stenosis region.
but even in cylinder it didnt solved.
I changed the velocity function to [(U^2/sqrt(t^4-.07t^2)+.0016 and U=.033m/s]and pressure outlet to zero and it converges.but these changes are just to find the problem!!(indeed I didnt)
you know I think It is because Im not good familiar with comsol.
I need your help to continue please...
Attachments:
Please login with a confirmed email address before reporting spam
Posted:
1 decade ago
again, you have written the inlet partially correct.
[(U^2/sqrt(t^4-.07t^2)+.0016
Do you mean:
Case A : U^2/(sqrt(t^4-.07t^2)+.0016)
Case B: (U^2/sqrt(t^4-.07t^2))+.0016
The important part is that you check that at t=0 you have a reasonable inlet velocity. It is possible that it is too high. With the sin function you have at t=0, u=.219, and Re of 340 roughly. In my simulations it will not converge. So, I have to ramp the velocity first. Even if you have a Sin inlet you can still ramp your flow:
U=(0.219+0.132sin(18.2t))*flc2hs(t-0.1,.1)
Just try it. If not we can move forward.
[(U^2/sqrt(t^4-.07t^2)+.0016
Do you mean:
Case A : U^2/(sqrt(t^4-.07t^2)+.0016)
Case B: (U^2/sqrt(t^4-.07t^2))+.0016
The important part is that you check that at t=0 you have a reasonable inlet velocity. It is possible that it is too high. With the sin function you have at t=0, u=.219, and Re of 340 roughly. In my simulations it will not converge. So, I have to ramp the velocity first. Even if you have a Sin inlet you can still ramp your flow:
U=(0.219+0.132sin(18.2t))*flc2hs(t-0.1,.1)
Just try it. If not we can move forward.
Please login with a confirmed email address before reporting spam
Posted:
1 decade ago
I tried it.in cylinder model the solution does 13% and after that it diverges and reciprocal of step sizes go to ...e11 and fluctuate in this limit.
but in main model(stenosis) it diverges from the first...
what should I do Danial??
but in main model(stenosis) it diverges from the first...
what should I do Danial??
Please login with a confirmed email address before reporting spam
Posted:
1 decade ago
I tried it.in cylinder model the solution does 13% and after that it diverges and reciprocal of step sizes go to ...e11 and fluctuate in this limit.
but in main model(stenosis) it diverges from the first...
what should I do Danial??
OK. One step ahead.
Now, there can be many possibilities. How about you upload your model and we take a look?
If you are already solving for FSI, did you try to solve it only for fluid, and no other physics? once the fluid is converged the rest of physics will follow.
Please login with a confirmed email address before reporting spam
Posted:
1 decade ago
yes I solved for the fluid with rigid walls with no problem.
unfortunately I couldntt upload my model..it give me a message about license..I dont know how to get it.
any idea Danial please!!
unfortunately I couldntt upload my model..it give me a message about license..I dont know how to get it.
any idea Danial please!!
Please login with a confirmed email address before reporting spam
Posted:
1 decade ago
yes I solved for the fluid with rigid walls with no problem.
unfortunately I couldntt upload my model..it give me a message about license..I dont know how to get it.
any idea Danial please!!
You don't have to upload it here. You can use file sharing services and paste the link here.
Hint: lifehacker.com/388284/best-online-file-sharing-services
Please login with a confirmed email address before reporting spam
Posted:
1 decade ago
Please login with a confirmed email address before reporting spam
Posted:
1 decade ago
Thanks Danial
here is the file: www.mediafire.com/?4jhr7opo3a2k4kd
Im waiting...
OK, here we go:
1. Abs tol set to 1e-5, relative to 1e-3
2. Redo your geometry with Comsol lines. There was something wrong with it, so I redid it.
3. If you want to use mapped mesh, then mesh as follow by dividing your domain into subdomains. You should do a finer meshing of course than what I did.
cl.ly/30d3aeacbf23b0517672
4. cl.ly/33823d72905351bdc895
have fun!
Danial
Please login with a confirmed email address before reporting spam
Posted:
1 decade ago
Dear Danial
I appreciate u..
I will try it..but if no matter whould u please send me the model u made changes?becouse I have some problem to draw geometry with lines and also to submaped mesh...
best regards
I appreciate u..
I will try it..but if no matter whould u please send me the model u made changes?becouse I have some problem to draw geometry with lines and also to submaped mesh...
best regards
Please login with a confirmed email address before reporting spam
Posted:
1 decade ago
Dear Danial
I appreciate u..
I will try it..but if no matter whould u please send me the model u made changes?becouse I have some problem to draw geometry with lines and also to submaped mesh...
best regards
Dear Maral,
Sorry, but I did the model on fly without saving. It was pretty easy to draw your model with lines and also mapped mesh. There are very nice tutorials in Comsol docs to learn from.
Please login with a confirmed email address before reporting spam
Posted:
1 decade ago
ok..
thanks again
thanks again
Please login with a confirmed email address before reporting spam
Posted:
1 decade ago
Hi Danial
sorry but I did all the changes as u said but again Im in trouble...no convergence
would u please check my file please: www.mediafire.com/download.php?7zaav4p70k0fa45
maybe its the problem with comsol3.5!!!
I got confused..
sorry but I did all the changes as u said but again Im in trouble...no convergence
would u please check my file please: www.mediafire.com/download.php?7zaav4p70k0fa45
maybe its the problem with comsol3.5!!!
I got confused..
Please login with a confirmed email address before reporting spam
Posted:
1 decade ago
Hi Danial
sorry but I did all the changes as u said but again Im in trouble...no convergence
would u please check my file please: www.mediafire.com/download.php?7zaav4p70k0fa45
maybe its the problem with comsol3.5!!!
I got confused..
sorry but I did all the changes as u said but again Im in trouble...no convergence
would u please check my file please: www.mediafire.com/download.php?7zaav4p70k0fa45
maybe its the problem with comsol3.5!!!
I got confused..
Please login with a confirmed email address before reporting spam
Posted:
1 decade ago
Salam Maral,
Your model looks fine. To my guess, the problem lies in the model definition of yours. Normally, as I said before, setting pressure does not mean much for Navier-stokes, as dP is important. BUT, not in the case when you deal with FSI, as fluid pressure exerts forces on the structure. Just to see what I mean, run a simulation at steady-state with your max velocity. You will see that The vein nearly explodes, due to very high internal forces. Either you have assigned a very low E, or you should rethink what you're doing with your boundary conditions. If you have a paper reference, go through it and see if you've missed a detail (and maybe post the ref here).
movaffagh bashi,
Danial
Your model looks fine. To my guess, the problem lies in the model definition of yours. Normally, as I said before, setting pressure does not mean much for Navier-stokes, as dP is important. BUT, not in the case when you deal with FSI, as fluid pressure exerts forces on the structure. Just to see what I mean, run a simulation at steady-state with your max velocity. You will see that The vein nearly explodes, due to very high internal forces. Either you have assigned a very low E, or you should rethink what you're doing with your boundary conditions. If you have a paper reference, go through it and see if you've missed a detail (and maybe post the ref here).
movaffagh bashi,
Danial
Please login with a confirmed email address before reporting spam
Posted:
1 decade ago
salaam
but you could solve it as u sent me the animation...???
but you could solve it as u sent me the animation...???
Please login with a confirmed email address before reporting spam
Posted:
1 decade ago
salaam
but you could solve it as u sent me the animation...???
I am not sure that coupling in that model was right. The displacement was 1e-8, practically nothing, and especially I looked at the flow only.
Danial
ps. which paper you're trying to model?
Please login with a confirmed email address before reporting spam
Posted:
1 decade ago
this is the paper Danial..
thank you very much for your attention..
thank you very much for your attention..
Attachments:
Please login with a confirmed email address before reporting spam
Posted:
1 decade ago
salam danial aziz
dar iran aziz man kasi ro peyda nakardam dar comsol b man komak kone.
I am trying to simulate natural heart valve in 2D fsi mode. when leaflets contact an error occurred.
Repeated error test failures. May have reached a singularity.
Time : 0.002592892726514386
Last time step is not converged.
When I define “contact pair” in definition and add “contact 1” in fsi node , I get error:
Failed to find consistent initial values.
Last time step is not converged.
How can I use contact pair? Or is there another way to modeling this example?
Please help me
Thank you so much!
dar iran aziz man kasi ro peyda nakardam dar comsol b man komak kone.
I am trying to simulate natural heart valve in 2D fsi mode. when leaflets contact an error occurred.
Repeated error test failures. May have reached a singularity.
Time : 0.002592892726514386
Last time step is not converged.
When I define “contact pair” in definition and add “contact 1” in fsi node , I get error:
Failed to find consistent initial values.
Last time step is not converged.
How can I use contact pair? Or is there another way to modeling this example?
Please help me
Thank you so much!
Attachments: